In this interview on The Logros Show – in association with The Greater Manchester Chamber of Commerce – Lee Dinsdale talks to Stacey Copeland. Stacey Copeland has represented her country in two sports, football and boxing. As an amateur boxer Stacey won a European silver medal and has now turned professional; last year she made history when she became the first ever British woman to win the Commonwealth title. In 2017 she founded Pave The Way, a project which promotes gender equality. Stacey delivers talks in schools, communities, and businesses, and has spoken at European Parliament and the United Nations about women in sport. She presents a weekly show on BBC Radio Manchester and recently won the \’Emerging Talent\’ award at the O2 media awards for presenting the \’Paving The Way\’ series on Granada Reports.
Interview with Stacey Copeland at Unity Radio – The Real Sound of the City.
Lee: This is Unity Radio – The Real Sound of The City. We are nine today. Happy birthday Unity Radio. We are broadcasting live from Media City UK on 92.8 FM, DAB and on-line. Today in the studio we are delighted that we have Stacey Copeland. She has just come in, how are you doing Stacey?
Stacey: Good thank you very much. Iâm a bit windswept but glad to get here finally.
Lee: Okay so a bit of an intro. In 2017 Stacey set up âPave The Wayâ which is a project which promotes gender equality. Stacey delivers talks in schools, communities and businesses and has spoken at the United Nations and European Parliament about women in sport. Stacey also presents a weekly show on BBC Radio Manchester. She recently won the Emerging Talent award at the O2 Media Awards for presenting her âPaving The Wayâ series on Granada Reports. So we have lots of questions. Stacey was an amateur boxer and won the European Silver Medal and has now turned professional. Last year she made history as the first ever British woman to win the Commonwealth Title. Congratulations. Letâs just get into the commonwealth fight. Can you describe the night, can you remember?
Stacey: It was amazing. Iâll never forget it, even the whole way it came about. It was a big risk really because you are going way out of your comfort zone. There are four African judges and boxing can sometimes be known for choice decisions with judges. We had a change of opponent and she was a bit of an unknown opponent. Unfortunately the opponent I was originally meant to fight had a car accident so was unable to fight. So the other person stepped in and she was ranked more highly above the original opponent. We had a little bit of video footage, but not much so on all accounts really it was going into the unknown. It was a fantastic week and I had always wanted to go to Africa but I presumed it would be after boxing. To combine it with my sport was brilliant. We got to visit loads of schools that week and animal sanctuaries. It was an incredible experience. We had had a difficult week, they lost my luggage there was lots of problems along the way but everything got sorted in the end. On the night I fully believed I could do it with my coach Blain Younis behind me. We had worked so hard. We had been in the climate chamber in Manchester and worked really hard. I just felt very well prepared and ready. Of course you canât prepare yourself for the occasion itself and the nerves. Over a hundred million people watched over there because it was on their free sports channel. There is a massive amount of pressure on you. You can never really prepare for the nerves because they are only there when they are there. In terms of the fight itself I was well ready.
Lee: What do you have to go through, to prepare? What kind of a training regime do you have coming up to the fight?
Stacey: It takes over your whole life to be honest. Iâll train twice a day. At that time I was working full time at the school. Iâm down to three days now because Iâve got a lot of other commitments at the minute. So at the time I was up at six every day, training in the morning, doing a full dayâs work, then going in the gym and doing twelve, thirteen or fourteen rounds sometimes. Sometimes you would train in the private chamber, which is to do with the altitude and the heat. So it was tough, loads of rounds of sparring. Your food has to be right and your supplements, everything. Nothing on its own makes a massive difference but when you factor everything in, like wearing your compression stuff, having recovery drinks, it accumulates and amounts to giving you those tiny little margins of progress for improvement.
Credit – Nigel Maitland
Lee: You won on points. Was it a unanimous decision on points Stacey?
Stacey: Yes.
Lee: I know you are from Manchester. What was it like in the early years? Tell us, how did you get into football and into boxing?
Stacey: Football, I donât quite know how that happened really! I just remember in the playground as a kid, I just wasnât interested in what the girls were doing. There was a massive divide. All the boys almost were playing football and all the girls were doing something else. The girls were doing things with elastic bands and making shapes out of them. Hopscotch, having weddings, marrying each other! I thought this just isnât for me. I just wanted to join in with the football. I donât know why, I was just pulled towards it and got involved that way. So it started just playing in the playground with all my mates. Then I played for the primary school team. In my first game one of the other parents who was a coach, said âthatâs a girlâ she canât play. They made me leave the pitch. It was horrible. I went home and said to my mum, right cut my hair short. She did that so I could pretend to be a boy and play in a team. That led to a few problems with people saying, why do you want to be a boy? I never wanted to be a boy. I was happy being a girl. I just wanted to play football and that was the only way at the time. You were not allowed to play with boys. The FA didnât officially recognise girls and womenâs football back then so that was the only way to do it. Eventually it got a lot better and I found a team. I had great success in football which was brilliant. My dad was a boxer and my grandad ran the gym. I was in there from being six, seven years old and loved everything about it. Anyone who has been in a boxing gym knows they are pretty smelly. Itâs a very tough sport but for whatever reason I absolutely loved it. I got to the about the age of eleven and I said to grandad right, Iâm ready to box. He said, oh you canât box kid. I said, what are you on about? He said itâs illegal for girls. I did everything little lads did and assumed I would be able to box. I just couldnât believe it when I knew I couldnât. I had to kind of park that dream for a bit and went into football, which I donât regret. I had a fantastic time playing football.
I just wanted to join in with the football. I donât know why, I was just pulled towards it and got involved that way. So it started just playing in the playground with all my mates. Then I played for the primary school team. In my first game one of the other parents who was a coach, said âthatâs a girlâ she canât play. They made me leave the pitch. It was horrible. I went home and said to my mum, right cut my hair short.
Lee: I know you do a project called âPave The Wayâ. Could you share a little bit more about what that actually is? That is probably outside of your boxing at the moment, is that right?
Stacey: âPave The Wayâ started in 2017 the week after my debut. Initially I set it up for womenâs sport week. It was only meant to last a week. We just did a load of school visits and community sessions and so on. We did a photography exhibition of women who work in sport which is now on display at the Velodrome National Cycling Centre. It has grown and grown and took its own momentum. Itâs changed as well. Initially for that week, it was just about women in sport as it was womenâs sport week. Through the public speaking that I do and talks at various businesses and different industries it has become quite apparent, number one that this is not just an issue for women in sport. Its women in law, in tech, in engineering – it goes on and on. Itâs also important to talk about both genders because, I met a little boy last week who is seven and does ballet. Heâs frightened to tell anyone and is worried about going into lessons because of the stigma. There is a stigma faced by anyone who tries to go against gender stereotypes. Itâs a real shame because there are people with massive talent, or just a passion who are missing out because of this stigma. I think itâs about time we just had a way to voice that and challenge it. That is what âPave The Wayâ is about, gender not being a barrier to human potential.
Lee: Now weâre going to be talking about boxing. A question I want to ask is, what is it like when you are in the ring? Whatâs going through your head and how do you maintain that composure and stillness to be in control of your shots?
Stacey: First thing is it can depend on who your opponent is. If you are comfortable and you are winning, whatâs going through your head is yes, Iâve got this one under my belt. However if you are in with someone who is heavy handed and punching your head in you are thinking something that, I probably shouldnât say on the radio! So it can depend on that. Generally speaking, going into the fight, I try and have two really basic tactics in my head; otherwise your head can get really really busy. Controlling your own mind is one of the biggest things to overcome in boxing really. It can be one of the biggest challenges.
Lee: Do you do anything like meditation to help control your mind. Do you do anything else to support your training?
Stacey: I donât meditate as such. I am a very hyperactive person with far too much energy. I donât think meditation would be helpful to me, Iâd probably just get busier. I do have certain routines that help me prepare mentally, without a doubt. I think itâs about finding whatâs right for you.
Lee: Are you able to share them, or is that a secret?
Stacey: No itâs not a secret. Quite often up in the build-up to the fight, I might have one quote. For example when I was getting ready for the European Championships, it was a scary experience. I had only seventeen fights going into that. I was quite inexperienced and it was my first major tournament representing team GB. I have this quote, itâs actually my phone cover which is âif your dreams donât scare you, theyâre not big enoughâ. I had that with me all the time and next to my bed to remind myself when I was feeling those unbelievable nerves. It is like electricity running through your veins, that level of nerves. I reminded myself this is normal. Iâm supposed to feel like this because Iâm doing something mega. It really helped me rather than panicking about it. It really helped throughout the rounds through to the final.
Lee: What is it that you like about boxing?
Stacey: I love the personal challenge about boxing. The things I love about football and boxing is what separates them really. In football when you step on to the pitch and the whistle goes you are competing as one unit, as a whole team. What I like about boxing is the opposite. Although itâs a massive team around you preparing you for the fight and getting you through the fight, and you canât do anything without your coach and the people around you, but essentially once the bell goes it is you in combat with the other person. Personal challenge is not like anything else in life and I love that.
Lee: I donât know enough about boxing. In terms of your style for those people who love boxing and who are listening, do you have a particular style that you follow, or that people would recognise?
Stacey: I fight a bit like my dad. My dadâs favourite fighter was Roberto Duran. I tend to fight a bit like him partly because Iâm built like him. Iâm a short and stocky fighter. Longer, rangier, lankier fighters who have a longer reach might fight differently. For me, Iâm better on the inside so I need to be close up to someone. I havenât got a long reach. I tend to have a high work rate and I am what we call a front foot fighter. Having said that in the commonwealth fight we had to change our tactic. I went on the back foot and was counterpunching a lot more, but thatâs because she was an absolute unit and hit really hard. It would have not been in my interest to go toe to toe with her for the full ten rounds. I had to get on my bike, come in, mix it a bit and get on the back foot again so we varied the tactics for that one, but generally speaking Iâm a go forward fighter.
Lee: In terms of your boxing future how does that look at the moment? I know we were talking about wanting to go for another title fight, what are the plans?
Stacey: To be honest itâs been one of the most difficult eighteen months. Itâs tested me to my limits physically, mentally and emotionally. I was on that most massive high of the commonwealth title; I went up in the rankings. There were loads of offers coming in to box here there and everywhere. Suddenly it was quite clear after that fight that there was a serious problem with my hand. I had torn a tendon off the knuckle in my left hand in that fight and I had to have that repaired. That was three months of no punching. I got through that and kept training one handed. It was going well, and in January of this year in training I got a knee injury which ultimately meant I had to have an operation on it. We tried to avoid it but I had to have it done in May. Things were going well, then I had another setback in August and I was back on crutches for a week. Itâs been really frustrating but now, touch wood, I sparred yesterday and Iâm sparring on Saturday, so weâve moved up to two spars this week. Weâve got a couple of big sparring days in January. All being well we can set a fight date. Iâm hoping to have a couple of fights next year and then will be retiring
Lee: We had talked about you coming on to the radio last year. I had done all the research about you and you were looking at another fight. When you look at the industry, itâs hard to get the sponsorship in terms of the business side of things in terms of a fight. How difficult is it to put fights together and get involved in terms of the business side of womenâs boxing?
Stacey: On small hall shows it is difficult regardless of gender. I think the added difficulty that we have is there is less exposure, there is a lack of acceptance of it. Thereâs generally a lack of acceptance for boxing in some circles because people feel it is violent and dangerous and so on. Add the gender element to it, then itâs even more so. On small hall shows itâs difficult for males and females because these days you have to cover all the opponentsâ costs. For women that can be the hire cost. One because of supply and demand, there are fewer of them, so they can charge more. Also you are generally getting them from abroad. So you have flights, hotel and you have to give them a food allowance every day. It just adds up and up and up. Doing all of that with your own ticket money is very difficult, so you have to want to do it for more that the money, thatâs for sure. There has got to be a bigger purpose and for me there absolutely is. Thereâs the personal challenge but also inspiring the next generation and paving the way for boys and girls coming through. If I can do that, itâs worth more to me than the money anyway – you certainly have to have that bigger purpose.
Lee: So you touched on that boxing is very difficult from a female perspective. I know you are very passionate about women in sport. Could you tell us some of the work you have been doing around that please?
Stacey: We do a lot of school visits and we want to get that message out to kids as early as possible, that there shouldnât be stuff for boys and stuff for girls. If there is something that you are passionate about and you love and enjoy, you should be able to pursue it. Iâm one of the ones who did face that stigma and has come through it. I have been able to achieve my dreams and most of my potential. I still didnât get to go to the Olympics despite qualifying for them because there are not equal weight categories for women. These are things that need to change. I didnât get a belt when I won the commonwealth title because there wasnât one for women at the time. Now there is. So itâs the job of my generation of athletes to start improving things for the next generation just like people who came before us.
…there shouldnât be stuff for boys and stuff for girls. If there is something that you are passionate about and you love and enjoy, you should be able to pursue it.
Lee: What would you say to a girl of eleven, twelve listening who, likes sport but is unsure. What would you say to someone listening and what would be your message to them?
Stacey: I would just encourage them to have a go because sport enriches your life enormously. You have a readymade group of mates and you have something to give you self-esteem and purpose beyond Instagram and selfies. Not that there is anything wrong with those but if that is all there is, itâs not really a good substance and foundation. You can find out a lot about yourself and build confidence. I see it in so many of the girls and boys whose parents bring them down to the gym to watch training, and join in sometimes. You can see the difference it makes in their confidence and wellbeing whether mentally or physically. Itâs a fantastic thing and it doesnât mean just because you donât enjoy it at school you wonât like it. Sometimes it can be awkward at school, youâve got to wear a certain PE kit and itâs still very genderized. Itâs rugby, football and cricket for boys and netball, hockey and rounderâs for girls. You might not like those ones so try something different, just like adults do. So itâs about giving it a go and trying. Get some of your mates to do it with you. Itâs just a fantastic thing to have in your life if you can find something you enjoy.
Lee: No we are going talk about preparing for the fight. Iâm always interested in modelling success. What do you need to go through to achieve the transformation? Who were you accountable to when you were training and what kept you going?
Stacey: I think there are various things and obviously your coach is a key component. If you have any respect for your coach you donât want to let them down, and you push yourself. It helps having team mates. My team mate Bradley Rae had his eighth fight at the weekend. He trains really hard and we push each other so thatâs important. Also youâre accountable to yourself ultimately. Itâs me that has to get into the ring and if Iâm not fit, itâs me thatâs going to get beat up, so definitely the buck stops with me. For inspiration itâs the amount of schools I go in to and the amount of kids I meet and that we have coming down to the gym. If I do everything I can it will pave the way and also let them know that they can do it too. Thatâs a massive inspiration for me.
Lee: When you were planning out your training and looking at winning, did you ever think who do you need to become to win that title?
Stacey: I think the key thing is the consistency. Itâs about doing those things every single day. Getting up early and doing the early morning session, eating right throughout the day. Taking the right supplements, wearing your compression after having an ice bath. All those little bits add up, and committing to it one hundred percent. To be honest when you are getting ready for a fight, for me personally motivation is not difficult. Itâs the easiest thing in the world because I know on that set date, however many weeks away from now, I am going to be fighting and I want to win. I also know if people see rubbish menâs fight, theyâll say oh, that fightâs rubbish. If they see rubbish womenâs fight theyâll say, womenâs boxing is rubbish. There is a bigger pressure to prove ourselves. Thatâs not necessarily fair but itâs just true, and itâs both a privilege and a responsibility that comes with it. Iâm training hard to be the very best I can be all the time so I donât ever struggle with motivation. What is difficult is, times like the last eighteen months where Iâve been injured. When you keep getting these setbacks it pulls on your heart strings because itâs interrupting you getting towards those dreams. Thatâs when that consistency really kicks in and you have to know why you are doing it. I really believe in the statement that, if you know your why, you can endure almost anything. So I know my why and when the tough times come I can push through âcos I know why Iâm doing it.
I also know if people see rubbish menâs fight, theyâll say oh, that fightâs rubbish. If they see rubbish womenâs fight theyâll say, womenâs boxing is rubbish. There is a bigger pressure to prove ourselves. Thatâs not necessarily fair but itâs just true, and itâs both a privilege and a responsibility that comes with it.
Lee: That is the question around beliefs. The beliefs generally are the glue that holds our whole world together are our best current thinking. What did you have to believe in order to get you to winning? If you look back over the last eighteen months where thatâs been a challenge – what have you had to believe then?
Stacey: Like I say, itâs that set of whyâs. I love winning. In that few seconds when my hand was raised in Zimbabwe I knew Iâd made history and made everyone proud. I had justified all that work that Iâd put in and inspired loads of people who were watching. Even though itâs been such a difficult eighteen months, itâs worth it for me to even have another shot of having that feeling again. I know what that feeling is like. Thatâs definitely something that can motivate you. I think there are different stages of belief that you go through like at the Europeans. It was believing that I deserved to be there because Iâd always had a bit of a thing that, do I really deserve to be here?
Lee: How did you put yourself into – I do deserve. Some people donât believe they deserve things and that can mean lower self- esteem and lower confidence. How did you manage, yes I do deserve to win that?
Stacey: I had help from a sports psychologist. He is Chris Marshall and is the GB Boxing sport psychologist and he definitely helped. I also think it was time. This had come from way back when I was a sixteen year old kid. I got my first England call up and the feeling when you get that letter with the three lions on it just blows your mind. I was so excited. I went to my boss at the time and said, I need a week off, and he said what do you need a week off for? I showed him this letter and I was almost floating. He didnât say much and then he said, you want me to give you a week off to go and play for a womenâs football team? Iâm like, well it is the England womenâs team. He laughed said all these jokes. I said, can I take unpaid because it means a lot to me? He said, well if you must. I left that office feeling really small and almost ashamed of who I was. I thought what an idiot thinking itâs such a bit deal to play for the England womenâs football team. I didnât tell any of my colleagues, I didnât tell anyone. Things like that impacted me and I used to think I donât deserve to be here. It went on and on and it plagued me Iâd say for years. The first day when I met my sports psychologist he asked what I wanted to talk about. I said I want to talk about how, this can be the first time I can have a great sporting experience that I feel like I deserve. He helped me get there.
Lee: Any techniques or tools you can share that he did with you?
Stacey: Yeah, I went on a lot of walks before fights and it certainly helped with belief. He said you are not being asked to do anything you canât do and itâs about putting it into perspective. It can get well out of shape in your mind. I was at a tournament in Serbia and you are always guessing whoâs your weight before the draw. There was this woman I saw in a Serbia top and I was saying to my mates she looks nails. They said yeah I bet sheâs your weight and by the next day shed got bigger and bigger in my mind. I got down to breakfast and she was one of the canteen staff and she was serving breakfast. I thought, thank god! I also realised how ridiculous that Iâd been worried all night about this person who wasnât even my opponent. Thatâs what can happen in your mind, it can trick you. So embrace those nerves, donât fight them, accept they are there and park them. You get these negative self-talks in your head whatever they may be, about your opponent or about yourself. Imagine putting them in a car and go and park up and just say I know you are trying to help me (itâs your brains job; your brain isnât meant to go lets fight another human being in front of everyone and risk humiliation and being beaten up) you have to say this isnât helpful . Iâve got a job to do so Iâm just going put you in this parking space for now, while I go and win. You do need that protective aspect of your brain, but itâs not helpful if itâs trying to talk you out of fighting when youâve got to go out there and get a win. So there are loads of techniques that will work for different people.
Lee: A lot of people suffer from judging themselves and putting themselves down. How did you manage that?
Stacey: Part of it is one, realising you are not the only person. Even the most successful people in the world have self- doubts. Also being able to name it and label it and understand what imposter syndrome is. If you said to most people, have you ever had imposter syndrome, most would say, whatâs that? When you explain what it is they will say, oh yes Iâve had that loads of times. Iâve had that when Iâve done public speaking. I was just a regular kid from Manchester whoâs a boxer and the next minute Iâm at the United Nations addressing ambassadors from different countries. There really is a part of your brain that says, what are you doing here? But at the end of the day itâs my lived experience and itâs authentic and powerful in that sense. Itâs not using graphs and statistics. Itâs heart on my sleeve, that is my story coming through and thatâs the truth of it. Weâve all got something to offer and eventually, hopefully you can realise the value that youâve got to bring. By not doing that we donât allow other people to shine and share their stories and use their voices. If we think about the people who inspired us, and we all have different inspirations, but if they hadnât have done what they have, we wouldnât have benefited from it and thatâs a reason to do it. There is that saying âyou can choose courage or you can choose comfort but you canât have bothâ. When you step into whatever arena it is whether itâs a boxing arena or you doing this show, the bigger the arena gets, the more people are sat in the stands. They might be shouting things, throwing things at you but, you know what youâre in the arena. Iâd always choose things being thrown at and shouting in the stands and live in courage than to sit in comfort and not have done anything.
Lee: Thank you very much for coming in Stacey. New Year plans, have you any resolutions looking forward?
Stacey: I donât really have New Year resolutions to be honest. Iâm going on holiday to Madeira so Iâm looking forward to that with my boyfriend. They have the most amazing New Yearâs Eve fireworks ever. Iâve already signed up to a gym there for the week so I will carry on my training. Next year is very much about getting my training on track and trying to secure the world title fight and that will be a dream come true for me really.
Lee: So when youâve won that come back into the studio and tell us all about it. I wish you all the best for the future.
Stacey: Thanks for having me and everything that you do. I think itâs brilliant what you are doing for young people, for the city and for radio and opportunities in general. Thanks very much.
Lee: Thank you very much Stacey Copeland.
To find out more about Stacey and \”Pave the Way\” you can visit her website –
https://www.stacey-copeland.co.uk/
Or you can follow Stacey on Social Media – Twitter @scopelandboxer | Insta @staceycopelandboxer
Article Transcription by Terry Capostagno
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